Well I guess that settles it. Where do you get all this heavy duty research from Narkissos? Khairo in 2 John 9-11 could well mean not to even say a polite salutation, so the Watchtower could be right on that point. But the point remains that such a harsh attitude was only reserved for persons teaching an antichrist message.
yadda yadda 2
JoinedPosts by yadda yadda 2
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Society's use of 2 John 9-11 to justify total shunning totally wrong!
by yadda yadda 2 inthe watchtower society appears to have totally twisted the meaning of the original greek work for "greeting in 2 john 9-11 to justify not even saying a polite "hello" to disfellowshipped or disassociated ones.
the following from http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/disfellowship.htm sums it up very nicely:.
"likewise the term to never say a greeting to him needs to be understood in light of first century practice.
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Society's use of 2 John 9-11 to justify total shunning totally wrong!
by yadda yadda 2 inthe watchtower society appears to have totally twisted the meaning of the original greek work for "greeting in 2 john 9-11 to justify not even saying a polite "hello" to disfellowshipped or disassociated ones.
the following from http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/disfellowship.htm sums it up very nicely:.
"likewise the term to never say a greeting to him needs to be understood in light of first century practice.
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yadda yadda 2
Anyone else care to comment? Narkissos seems to agree with the Society's use of John 9-11 to justify not even saying a polite hello or greeting to disfellowshipped persons. Lovely.
Isn't anyone else bothered by the fact that the definitions in Strong's dictionary for "greeting" seem very at odds with the Watchtower explanation in that article?
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My first Meeting in 3 years= Love bombing pats on the back!!!! Yuck!
by Witness 007 in"we missed you.....so nice to see you again!
the memorial is thursday ya know.....".
my wife hasn't been well mentally so i agreed to attend some meetings with her...this is the bottom of the barrell for me!
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yadda yadda 2
I think many JW's actually admire those who have the balls to leave out of disagreement over their teachings. Secretly they are in awe of the forbidden research and knowledge they know you now possess. They secretly crave to learn a few forbidden things from you. So they are secretly delighted to see you again.
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Since "OUR" sins are "CANCELLED WHEN WE DIE", what happens to DF'd persons's sins?
by african GB Member ini am just wondering since the elders don't even bury the df'd..... do they stay df'd even after death?.
is there really a reason for jw's to continue shunning this poor souls?.
african gb member.
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yadda yadda 2
Leaving the Borg is an unforgiveable sin worthy of Gehenna.
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How many visit here that are non-members? (lurkers)...we have many newbies
by oompa inis there a way to know in any given period of time, like a month or year, how many visit jwd/jwn that are non-members.
so many of the newbies mention they have been "long time lookers"...... that i am now curious.
i can understand why early doubting dubs are prob scared to death at first, since any non-jw material is so taboo...they prob just take a quick peek....then another....then really start reading and looking back on on threads..............oomps.
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yadda yadda 2
I'm Samuel Herd. I'm a lurker.
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Did you feel "Stoopid" when going out in service?
by Quirky1 inman, i always felt like a complete idiot!!
dressing up in a suit riding around with a carload of other "stoopid" people speaking "stoopid" shit!
wtf was i thinking??
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yadda yadda 2
"Man, I always felt like a complete idiot!! Dressing up in a suit riding around with a carload of other "Stoopid" people speaking "Stoopid" shit! WTF was I thinking???"
LMAO!
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Is Memorial the same as a Toast?
by cameo-d inwhat is the difference between observing memorial and toasting?.
isn't "toasting" the act of raising a glass in acknowledgement of agreement?.
isn't toasting forbidden in jw land?.
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yadda yadda 2
Blondie's right. Also, a toast involves two or more people more or less simultaneously raising their glasses (with or without clinking), but the JW's only pass a single glass. It's apparent from reading the gospel accounts of the last supper that a single cup was passed around.
This is not the issue. The issue is that JW's don't drink from the glass/cup.
But cameo-d loves to throw any old nonsense out there just to be provocative for the sake of it. I suppose its a form of attention-seeking.
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yadda yadda 2
(the Son of God - hence God)
HUH???
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Memorial "observers" - meditate on this before rejecting the emblems!
by yadda yadda 2 indo you have gods spirit?.
...we, in turn, might receive the adoption as sons.
now because you are sons, god has sent forth the spirit of his son into our hearts and it cries out: abba, father!
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yadda yadda 2
DO YOU HAVE GOD’S SPIRIT?
“…we, in turn, might receive the adoption as sons. Now because YOU are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of his Son into our hearts and it cries out: ‘Abba, Father!’ ” —Galatians 4:5-6, NWT
“For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.” —Romans 8:14, NWT
How Does a Person Receive God’s Spirit?
“…because YOU are sons, God has sent forth the spirit…” —Galatians 4:5, NWT
Are you spiritually adopted as a son or daughter of God?
“God does not adopt them as spiritual sons, as he does the 144,000.” —The Watchtower, February 1, 1998, p. 20
If you are not adopted, how can you be “led” by God’s Spirit?
“For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.”—Romans 8:14, NWT
Without God’s Spirit which you receive through adoption, how can you claim to “please” God and “belong” to Christ?
“So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God. However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU. If anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him.”—Romans 8:8-9, NWT
“Jesus took a loaf… he said: ‘TAKE, eat. This means my body.’ Also, he took a cup… saying: ‘Drink out of it, all of YOU; for this means my “blood of the covenant,” which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.’” —Matthew 26:26-28, NWT
What is Jehovah’s Arrangement for Life?
“This is my Son, the beloved; listen to him.”—Mark 9:7, NWT
“Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves.”—John 6:53, NWT
Do you “listen” to the Son by participating in His New Covenant?
“…only the 144,000… have properly partaken of the emblems during the Memorial of Jesus’ death, and only with them did Jesus make his covenant… Members of the great crowd are not participantsin thenew covenant.” —The Watchtower, February 1, 1998, p. 19
What part of the word “anyone” does not apply to you?
“…the bread…that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread …if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever…the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”—John 6:50-51, NWT
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John 14:14 "Ask me anything in my name.." or "ask anything in my name.." ?
by yadda yadda 2 inat john 14:14 did jesus mean: to ask him directly for anything in his name; or to ask (the father) of anything in his name?
various bibles translate this differently.
if ye shall ask any thing in my name, i will do it.. american king james version.
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yadda yadda 2
Very enlightening, thank you.
On the one hand, it does seem odd that Jesus would say "..I [ego] will do it.." in the second part of the verse yet not expect his followers to personally ask him to do it. But on the other hand, to translate it as "ask me" does seem to contradict 16:23. And from what I can gather it appears more or less 50/50 on how the earliest versions/texts translated it.
A tricky one. I suppose that since praying to the Father is more often what the NT records as to how Christians should pray and there are comparably only allusions to praying directly to Jesus, and few at that (eg, 1 Cor 1:2; 1 Cor 16:22; Rev 22:20), then to exclude "..ask me.." from John 14: 14 seems more correct, imho.
2 Cor 12:7-9 is about the only passage I'm aware of that could be said to justify petitioning Jesus directly in prayer.